A Conversation with Dr. Javed Butler

“You will always, always, always get the result of what you do. If you are able to manipulate someone and that person is not in a position to retaliate and you win in your manipulation, there is karma that will come from somewhere else that will get you. On the other hand, if you do something good, righteous, and in return, you come out empty handed, don’t worry. You will get repaid by karma in some other way.”

Bio

Javed Butler, MD, is a Professor and Chairman of The Department of Medicine at The University of Mississippi. Prior to joining the University of Mississippi, he was the Director of the Division of Cardiovascular Medicine and the Co-Director of the Heart Institute at Stony Brook University in New York. Dr. Butler served as the Director for Heart Failure Research at Emory University and Director of the Heart and Heart-Lung transplant programs at Vanderbilt University prior to that. After completing his medical school in Pakistan, Dr. Butler completed his residency from Yale University and fellowships from Vanderbilt University and Harvard University. He also completed his Masters in Public Health degree from Harvard University and an MBA from Emory University. He serves on several national committees for the American College of Cardiology, the American Heart Association and the National Institutes of Health, and was recently elected as a member of the prestigious Association of University Cardiologists. Dr. Butler is the recipient of the Simon Dack Award by the American College of Cardiology and the Time, Feeling and Focus Award by the American Heart Association.

As someone who is very successful, how have you managed to balance achievement and kindness?

“I would say that is something which is important to me,” Dr. Butler replied. “I look at the world incredibly flat and non-hierarchical, and to me communicating with the Dean of my med school or the janitor who comes in the evening to clean my room are literally one and the same thing, because a lot of what happens to us is actually determined by the social lottery or which family we are born in.”

“So, it’s tough to not be kind to people who are behind you and who are trying to come up. I think these are all subconscious things that guides your behavior. But in principle, I look at the world incredibly flat and non-hierarchical.”

Have you always had a drive to succeed or was there a turning point?

“I would say that my parents, like anybody from South Asia, had very high expectations of their children, and wouldn’t let me slide. Fun always came after work.”

Work ethic was very important to Dr. Butler’s parents. This included more than his personal education and encompassed the simple tasks of life such as making his bed. It was his parents who ultimately prepared him for a successful career.

What is the real problem of burnout?

“To me the question is two points. One is whether you perceive meaningfulness in what you’re doing. It’s not a job, but it’s a passion. And then the other is whether you are lucky enough, or whether you are intelligent enough to seek what you like to do.”

“And obviously these two are overlapping domains. And I think if the two things combine then the burnout issues get mitigated a little bit, because whatever you’re doing is really a fun.”

Dr. Butler acknowledges that there are obviously important matters for a physician to attend to such as budgets and quality measures. But he points out that interacting with fellows, writing paper, and thinking through the next great question is not work. It is fun. And as he notes, “It’s tough to be burned out when you’re having fun.”

What is the best way to identify your passion?

“My bias is that finding your calling has a much better negative predictive value than positive predictive value. So to me, it is more important to find out what you absolutely don’t like doing, because if you get stuck with that career, that will be a really tough. So again, as cliche as it is, and it’s probably true for many of us, but when I was going through medical school, every rotation that I went through at the end of the rotation, that’s what I wanted. I wanted to be a pediatrician. I wanted to be an internist. I wanted to be a nephrologist.”

That said, there were some rotations that Dr. Butler found very difficult. And there are some fields of medical world that he would not pursue, such as dermatology. He continues, “I think knowing what you don’t want to do is step one. Then if you have figured out what you don’t want to do, then the question is of all the things that are otherwise left on the table. Then you have to come up with some sort of a best mix of best opportunity that is available times your best interest.”

How do we add value to our mentors?

“Two things that I will say. One is be truthful and honest. Nothing can come right in life by being dishonest. Dishonesty will only have short term gain.”

The second thing for Dr. Butler is find ways to contribute to what the mentor deems important. As he states, “Mentors are really busy people. Mentors are trying to achieve a lot. So if you go and say that I’m going to learn the tricks of the trade by helping you do what you want to do, then that’s great because they are teaching you. But while they are teaching you are also forwarding their mission. On the other hand, if you go to a mentor and they’re really well-meaning people, but you have a very fixed idea of what research you want to do, and that’s not what they’re doing or thinking about right now, then they have to find time in part of their brain and part of a day to be able to think through something for what you like to do.”

Pearls of Wisdom

1. View the world as flat. No one is above anyone else and we need to treat every person with dignity and respect. We are all equal.
2. Use the “meaningfulness equation” to align the best opportunity in the market with your best interest.
3. Do not be afraid to reach out to mentors. We should enter into these relationships with the mindset of helping them achieve their mission and learning in that process.